Dear HPS. Hare Krishna from Sacramento, California. AGTSP.
If you remember when you were in Sacramento I did this recording link below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkT5JnZufgE
HpS - AGTSP! It is always very freaky when we see ourselves in videos!
Thank you for your replies. Now I need some things clarified according to what I have read, so I am quoting your replies from the other conversation.[https://monkeywarrior.com/detail/10619/]
ASA - Yes. The Six Goswami's would meet and discuss philosophy, strategy, no?
HPS: As far as I know Jayathirtha chanted on my beads, Bhakta Das recommended me for first initiation and Nita Das chose my name. Whose disciple am I. Ha! Ha! Ha Ray!!
Question: This means that Srila Prabhupada authorized his senior disciples to do your initiation on Srila Prabhupada's behalf. Does this also mean you had a "rittik initiation" [ritvik] – representative of the acarya"?
HpS 2109 Dec 1 (191201) - The problem for us is that we have never seen Srila Prabhupada us this word Ritvik one time in any Purport, so we don't see it as a word with any depth. I am a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Anybody who is intiated by his disciple is his disciple. They are also diciples of Narottama Das Thaura and Lord Caitanya. Disciple means one who follows the discipline. Prabhupada's comment.
Who is your Diksa guru? I would say that I am the diksa guru in connection with Prabhupada. If I fall down from my connection with Srila Prabhupada or I just die at 76-yers old, there is no need to take Diksa again. You were connected to Srila Prabhupada, no?
HpS ._. Answered above, no? We are not opposed to people having as much direct relationship as they can with Srila Prabhupada. We are just trying to act as one channel. If that involves be a link in the formality of initiation. O.K. If that involves explaining the books O.K. but our only desire is to just be a transparent via media to Srila Prabhupad and Krsna.
Question: So HPS as an official ISKCON Guru, is following the same system of initiation on behalf of the Acarya? So the initiate is actually a disciple of Srila Prabhupada as per the letter below and HPS is just doing the formalities, explaining the books, inspiring, setting a good example, etc.. and most importantly connecting the initiate to Srila Prabhupada? I want to know what is the consciousness or mentality of HPS!
Or HPS thinks that person HPS is initiating on behalf of Srila Prabhupada is HPS disciple, meaning that HPS is initiating and HPS is the authority, not Srila Prabhupada? You get it..where I am going with this..very subtle.
For example: if HPS says something that contradicts Srila Prabhupada's version, we can accept Srila Prabhupada's version (error on side of caution) and neglect HPS version..
HpS - Certainly, but trnad api sunicena... we try to discuss it with HpS and so often he says, "Oh, wow, thank you!".
Srila Prabhupada uses the word my disciple over 89 times in his letters, so him being the Acarya he can claim because without him I won't be here. but the officiating person cannot claim because he has no rights, he is acting under order.
HpS - One thing, as far as I know Prabhupada never authorized the letters to be published. There is even a letter to Brahmananda where Prabhupada says not to distribute his letters unless they are specifically for wide distribution, but Hansadutta Das, one of my principal, Siksa gurus, got a hold of them and published them so I guess the BBT had to follow. I like reading letters, but I belong to the Jayadvaita Swami school which puts the in a different category from Bhaktivedanta Purports.
Then, I don't understand your reasoning very well. From one perspective we can say that Srila Prabhupada has no authority of his own either. He is just acting under the aurhority of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta.... back to Krsna is the original Guru.
I like Sridhara Swami's comment... Trnad api sunicena... amanina manadena... our goal is not have as few Guru's as possible, but as many, to see everyone as our Guru, but... the proper style.
I can be a Madhyama adhikari and accept disciples but unless I do it in connection with Srila Prabhupada it has no meaning. Of course, we only accept people as disciples, students, who have a clear idea of who is Srila Prabhupada in ISKCON and who are we. BG 10.10-11. The Paramatma is Guru... That doesn't change with the fire sacrifice.
Regarding Guru Nanak:
"Common man should accept the ācāryas. They must follow. Ācāryopāsanam. Just like in India the Sikhs, they follow Guru Nanak. So Guru Nanak says, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa, incarnation of God." So they should accept, that's all. Not that every Sikh is expected to be unlimited as Guru Nanak. That is not expected. But they should follow Guru Nanak. Then they will understand. Guru Nanak says, "Kṛṣṇa is incarnation of God." The all the Sikhs should accept, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is..." Then it is all right. It is not expected that every Sikh will understand Kṛṣṇa. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]."
HpS - Thank you!!
Letter to: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents—
9 July, 1977
To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. Recently when all of the
GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada
indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as
"rittik" [ritvik] – representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing
initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. His Divine Grace has so
far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity:
His Holiness Kirtanananda Swami
His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami
His Holiness Jayapataka Swami
His Holiness Tamala Krsna Gosvami
His Holiness Hrdayananda Gosvami
His Holiness Bhavananda Gosvami
His Holiness Hansadutta Swami
His Holiness Ramesvara Swami
His Holiness Harikesa Swami
His Grace Bhagavan dasa Adhikari
His Grace Jayatirtha dasa Adhikari
In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada
recommending a particular devotee's initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada
has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send
recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven
representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the
recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated
disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of
second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada
has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as
His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these
representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the
fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly
initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or
her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace's "Initiated
Hoping this finds you all well.
Tamala Krsna Gosvami
Secretary to Srila Prabhupada
Approved: A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
HpS - Thank you again. For me it is simple. I am following Srila Prabhupada and I am going back to play with Krsna and anybody following me following Srila Prabhupada will also go back. Back to your service in the Sankirtan movment at any level and it will all become very clear.
Photo of us attached.