mutual understanding must be clear..
Dear Maharaj, PAMHO! AGTSP!
Thank you for discussing these issues with us.
You said:
HpS - Jaya! Again. Again. Again. These are all things we have discussed here before. I hope our opinion is clear. We go on discussing it but for us you are not presenting anything new, so we are happy to talk in person some time but we seem to have exhausted this forum sad much as possible in terms of mutual understanding.
Actually what you said was not clear,
HpS - Not clear to who? 😁 Even Krsna does not know Balarama, the original Guru-tattva perfectly. He is always increasing. For me I have a practical understanding. We have published it in http://www.jayarama.us/kd/guru-tattva.txt.
even your “disciples” are confused.
HpS - Actually only one of them mentioned this dialog to me and their comment was kind of informal that it was interesting but it seemed a little tiresome. I think it is one of the best dialogs I have had on this topic on the Blog. If they don't understand then they are not my disciples right.
You claim to be a diksa guru and then turning around and saying you are just a formalities siksa guru only.
HpS - Boy! Never say this. I, you, can both be practical Siksa gurus, just as Vartmana prasarshika gurus, telling people buy a book, and then we can be Siksa gurus for Madhyama adhikaris by repeating Shastra or teaching how we are able to eat and sleep less, read more etc.
This is really confusing. If you say Srila Prabhupada is the diksa guru, that needs to be clear. It is very clear to me and it should be to you and others.
HpS - We have tried to get a "Clear" "German precise" definition of Diksa guru, we are glad to adopt any position if we be near Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet, but it was not clear. Then we heard Hrdayananda Goswami and our good disciple, Radhika-Ramana Das who chants his rounds and follows four principles for decades and is also an Oxford scholar and Sanskritist that there is not emphasis on Diksa in our Sampradaya so the definition is not so hard. More is who is on the Kanishtha, Madhyama, Uttara, Sampradaya Acharya level. So again, taking the definition from 'kiba sudra kiba nyasi' verse we are a Diksa guru acting for our Acharya Srila Prabhupada. Even as Madhyama Adhikari we can accept disciples but only if they have accepted Srila Prabhupada as an Uttama Adhikari guru. That's pretty clear. Let us get back to work. How to get more books into the heart of more people.
If we try to mix both things, it just creates confusion and your siksa disciples will be confused. They will say HPS says he is a diksa guru, now saying he is a siksa formalities guru only and not a diksa guru. You say they should worship the Acarya (Srila Prabhupada) but they want to worship you.
HpS - We have corrected some of the above, but one point is to ask how many of the people Srila Prabhupada intiated had a clear idea of Guru tattva. Many of us were initiated in like 1974 but thought that maybe Srila Prabhupada was conscious of everything we were doing. Revatinandana Swami asked Prabhupada if this was true and Srila Prabhupada answered that he was not the super soul. When he need to know something about a disciple Krsna would inform him and usually externally.
I hope you can see that I would like to do my job better. I would like to see a better institutional ISKCON. I would like to see a better group of friends ISKCON, I would like to see my individual connection with Prabhupada better.
Are you chanting 16-nice rounds a day under the authority of Srila Prabhupada and following the four principles strictly. Have you received the Mantra from someone who received it from Srila Prabhupada and was himself doing 16/4? and trying to correct any deviations in the institutin? If yes, then I can consider that you are a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Have you seen the citation in the seventh canto about Prahlada Maharaja's relationship with his older Godbrothers.?
you commented: [https://monkeywarrior.com/detail/10635/]
HpS - Yes, we can talk of Guru tattva in Mexico. Basically Srila Prabhupada is Founder Acharya for you, me, everyone in ISKCON, no? Then he left over one-hundred volumes of instruction so why should we be confused, no?
Basic principle is chant Hare Krsna and be happy.
Then what is your ROLE? If he (Srila Prabhupada) is founder Acharya for you , me and everyoone in ISKCON, then your role is not DIKSA, it is of siksa only, why claim to be a diksa and confuse people? You are saying that everything is very clear but it is not!
HpS - We have discussed this above and in previous letters. We are claiming to be Diksa guru because we are the ones who 'initiate according to the process'. Why are you confused? We discuss this a LOT while traveling and lecturing. It is clear to the audiences. Guru tattva is unlimited and expanding. We want to KNOW guru well enough to improve our service to Krsna. Are you following our Founder Acharya? Are you chanting 16/4. Are you keeping full morning program. If now, then you will not be able to chant 16-enthusiastic rounds. Then it will not ne clear to YOU.
https://monkeywarrior.com/detail/10640/
You stated about letters shouldn’t be published here is Hansdutta reply:
“I never heard this, who said this ? In the early years anyone who received a letter would duplicate it and send to the other centers, later on it became impractical”
HpS - Madhuvisa Das, one of the early devotees who had so many letters from Prabhupada told me that when they asked devotees for their letters for publishing he sent in a lot, but some he did not because they were personal.
Jayadvaita gives nice evaluation of the standard that Srila Prabhupada made for the authenticity of this letters. I told you, no, that it is in a letter to Brahmananda about nor circulating letters unless Prabhupada told him to do it. It is in Jayadvaita's intro to the Vedabas, "what you are getting".
Hansadutta Das told me that Prabhupada told him that every big man would have three secretaries. With the first he would discuss the general content of the letter. Then 1 would tell 2 what to write and 3 would type it and clean up the syntax. 2 would look at it and if o.k. initial it and give it to 1 and if number one initialed it the Big Man would just glance at it and sign it unless it was very specfic topic. I have not said to not cite letters here but just with this level of understanding them. Did Srila Prabhupada tell his secretary when asked for how long the GBC Secretaries should serve that they should serve 'for as long as they have life', and the secretary then typed up the letter as, "they should serve" for life? Prabhupada says that at 50 years old the life in the body is finished, that maybe you can push it to fifty five. See my point about letters??
A set of 5 volumes of prabhupada were published by Nischinya das
HpS - Five volumes of letters?
O.K. we have to rush to get a bath. We are late because this dialog is so nice. Interfaith dialog today. What about the 16/4, FM Program, getting the mantra from a strict 'Prabhupada' disciple? Can we talk on the phone when we get to USA?
