Respuesta al comunicado de ISKCON Perú sobre Daru Krishna Das
Respuesta al comunicado de ISKCON Perú sobre Daru Krishna Das
Traducción al inglés de www.translate.google.com y HpSwami/ASA edita los comentarios a continuación.
www.translate.google.com and HpSwami/ASA edits comments below.
He recibido un mensaje de alguien que me dijo “la mayoría está de acuerdo con usted, pero no la forma de expresarlo”.
Mi respuesta fue que si hubiese sabido que lo que escribí iba a ser publicado en un foro público, me hubiese expresado de otra manera. Es lógico que uno ajuste lo que dice de acuerdo a la audiencia.
Dentro del GBC se ha discutido en varias oportunidades la situación de devotos que tienen discípulos y, en algunos casos, estos han sido sancionadas sin que la resolución se publique. Esto significa que durante la discusión se trataron temas que no se han querido hacer públicos para no disturbar a los discípulos, y por la misma razón no se hizo pública la resolución con la sanción.
Es necesario entender que cuando un devoto, independientemente de su posición, popularidad, nivel, cantidad de discípulos, imagen pública, etc., toma una posición administrativa, se encuentra sujeto a escrutinio, y que no necesariamente quienes analicen e incluso critiquen su situación, servicio y eficiencia, deben estar en su mismo nivel. Incluso, tampoco es necesario que sean sus hermanos espirituales los que puedan analizar y juzgar su desempeño, pero qué decir si lo son. Claro, por obvias razones, elegirán el foro o la situación que corresponde para emitir juicios, hablar de detalles y expresarse de cierta manera.
En el pasado, se filtraron mensajes de dos líderes muy importantes del movimiento, que causaron mucho malestar entre los discípulos de otro líder igualmente prominente. Estos dos líderes nunca hubiesen querido que lo que dijeron y cómo lo dijeron, se haga público, lo cual significa que no se los puede hacer responsables de haber causado dicho malestar.
Aquí tenemos a un cuarteto rasgándose las vestiduras por mis comentarios publicados en un foro público sin mi conocimiento, y “forzados” según uno de ellos me ha dicho, a emitir un comunicado condenándome por haberme atrevido a decir ciertas cosas. Pero, ¿si mis comentarios fueron considerados ofensivos y se vio que no fue mi intención que se hagan públicos y se borró del foro, porqué hubo quienes estuvieron interesados en hacer copias y difundir esto por todas partes? ¿Con qué intención se ha compartido algo así si era considerado ofensivo? ¿Por qué no se dejó ahí? Faltó publicarlo en el Comercio para que más gente lo lea.
Para alguien que piensa un poco, no es difícil deducir que, sobre todo para el cuarteto en cuestión, el contar con algo así ha sido un “néctar”, porque lo que importa en este caso no es la ofensa cometida, es seguir atacando al mensajero, y no debatir ni responder punto por punto a las serias acusaciones que se les han hecho, que sí están basadas en evidencias, sino tratar de desprestigiar y anular a quien las presenta.
Si eres un pícaro, eres criminal. Pero si toleras actividades criminales eso también es criminal. (3 de mayo de 1973, caminata matutina).
Respecto a la posición de una persona que no habla incluso cuando sabe la verdad: jani saksi nahi deya tara papa haya. “Una persona que conoce las cosas tal como son y aun así no da testimonio, se involucra en actividades pecaminosas”. (caminata matutina del 17 de mayo de 1975). Srila Prabhupada.
Esto le escribió su maestro espiritual a un discípulo que, entre otros devotos, estaba compartiendo lo que escribí y haciendo sus propios comentarios sobre mi:
“Por favor envía esta carta a mi discípulo ………….
Mi querido …………..
Por favor acepta mis oraciones para tu avance en la conciencia de Krishna. ¡Todas las glorias a Srila Prabhupada!
He intentado comunicarme contigo por correo electrónico, pero sin éxito.
Mi amigo ……….. ha aceptado enviarte esta carta.
Por favor, abandona tu intento de desacreditar a mi amigo y hermano espiritual, Daru Krishna Prabhu. Lo conozco desde hace muchos, muchos años y estoy TOTALMENTE CONVENCIDO de que no es culpable de hacer nada que pudiera lastimar el movimiento de Prabhupada. Por el contrario, está haciendo todo lo posible para mantener ISKCON puro. No es tu posición asumir un papel tan destacado en blasfemarlo. Por favor, para con este comportamiento inmediatamente.
Tu bienqueriente
…………………………….”
Pero la propaganda “oficialista” es que DK tiene una agenda personal, escondida y oscura, para la cual manipula psicológicamente a los demás, como por ejemplo a los 124 devotos que firmaron la carta pidiendo que la Gangamayi Devi Dasi y su familia, así como el supervisor zonal sean removidos de sus posiciones. Con eso están diciendo que todos esos devotos tienen malas intenciones y están equivocados, y que los únicos que tienen la verdad y las cosas claras son ellos.
Para ellos, DK no debería estar indignado porque a la empresa que creó junto con el bueno de Lakshmi Pati para mantener el templo de Chosica y darle trabajo a los grihastas, y que había logrado colocar sus productos, no solo en muchas tiendas naturistas sino en los supermercados de Lima, Gangamayi Devi Dasi le sacó la vuelta y creó la suya propia copiando absolutamente todo, para que luego, por alguna razón inexplicable termine administrando dicha empresa junto con la suya propia y la termine quebrando.
Tampoco debería estar perturbado de ninguna manera, porque no es cierto, o sea “no hay evidencia”, de que esta misma persona mandó a escribir una carta que se hizo pública acusándolo falsamente de ir a la policía “voluntariamente” a denunciar de cosas horrendas al movimiento Hare Krishna que él ayudó a fundar en el Perú y que protegió por más de dos décadas, dejando al irse una excelente imagen. Vale decir que este es uno de los temas que se han incluido en la investigación oficial aprobada por el LA RGB y el GBC -seguramente porque un grupo de alucinados presentó denuncias sin evidencias—y dos devotos que fueron utilizados por ella con el fin victimizarse al estar enfrentando un caso judicial por falsificar firmas que le permitieron autoelegirse en la junta directiva, algo que tiene pena de cárcel, ya han brindado sus testimonios.
Y cómo no va a interesarle o preocuparlo lo que se hizo con propiedad de la institución que él mismo DK compró representando a un grupo de devotos sinceros que se sacrificaron para de esta manera servir la misión de Srila Prabhupada, en una casa ubicada en uno de los mejores lugares de Lima.
Y cuando por fin se recupera el 2do piso de la casa, que fue comprada para predicar conciencia de Krishna y no para hacer negocios, y un grupo de devotos con el apoyo de la mayoría de la comunidad estaba dispuesto a hacerse cargo, resulta que Gangamayi Devi Dasi y familia se vuelven no solamente brahmanas de un día para otro, si no los más calificados y los únicos capaces de adorar a las Deidades. Y por esta razón se les permite mudarse allí con sus colchones, a pesar de la lista de devotos con segunda iniciación y experiencia en el servicio de pujari que se le presentó al supervisor zonal.
Los que ya estaban comprometidos a organizar allí los programas, al conocer la decisión del supervisor, que no solo supervisa, sino que se encarga de tomar las decisiones que deberían estar en manos de los devotos locales, renunciaron de inmediato. ¿Alguien los puede culpar por no querer trabajar con Gangamayi Devi Dasi? ¿No hay que indignarse tampoco por esto ni decir nada al respecto?
La investigación oficial se aprobó debido a que se presentaron suficientes evidencias, pero como algo así toma su tiempo, se pidió que aquellos que aparecen como acusados se hagan a un lado y se abstengan de tomar decisiones importantes en cuanto al manejo de fondos y propiedades. Lamentablemente, por razones bien conocidas, eso no se aprueba hasta ahora.
Por tratarse de un grupo de gente inteligente y honesta, en 2019, los de la empresa Veda que subalquilaron la casa de Schell, al darse cuenta de la verdadera situación de los contratos, manifestaron el deseo y la voluntad de pagarle el alquiler directamente a ISKCON en vez de continuar pagándole al supervisor zonal, que declaró que si bien él era un “devoto” haciendo allí un servicio, al momento de hacer estos arreglos con la propiedad era “un hombre de negocios”, y para el supervisor actual, todo estuvo bien, se trató simplemente de alguien que fue un “negociador inteligente”.
El problema es que quienes deberían haber coordinado esto con ellos, no lo hicieron, y por estas razones y algo que pasó este mismo año, la imagen que estas personas se llevaron de ISKCON fue la peor que uno se puede imaginar. La gota que colmó el vaso, fue que, uno de los que le puso “like” al comunicado que estoy respondiendo, a pesar de saber que esta gente se iría en unos meses, no pudo con su genio y fue a la municipalidad de Miraflores a poner una denuncia que resultó en la clausura de la operación que ellos estaban llevando a cabo en el primer piso de la casa.
En lo personal, no dejaré de decir lo que veo ante el deterioro de un yatra que fue en su momento tan exitoso, sobre todo, cuando las cosas están más que claras y los culpables principales de esto se encuentren perfectamente identificados. Si todo estuviese bien, si se hubiese mantenido por lo menos lo más importante que se consiguió, yo estaría más que feliz y de ninguna manera intervendría. Por el contrario, estaría feliz que como resultado de algunas de las cosas que hago la gente pueda ir a los templos que yo mismo ayudé a abrir. No estoy aquí tratando de llevar agua para mi molino, no tengo molino, y en lo personal no gano ni pierdo nada con esto, solo cierto tiempo y energía, además de estar constantemente sujeto a los ataques de gente como la que firmó este comunicado.
En el servicio de mi maestro espiritual y los vaishnavas,
Un burro con buenas intenciones y resistencia,
Daru Krishna Das (ACBSP)
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Response to ISKCON Peru's statement on Daru Krishna Das
I received a message from someone who told me “most agree with you, but not the way to express it.”
My response was that if I had known that what I wrote was going to be published in a public forum, I would have expressed myself differently. It is logical that one adjusts what one says according to the audience.
ASA/HpS – What, agtSP, we published on our ASA Blog was for that community, and as such was not presented for a “public forum”, much like the conversations that go after the Sunday Festival lecture when more confidential community of a few devotees gather around the Speaker to discuss the topic in more detail.
Also, what we published, from a stimulating personal communication from H. G. Daru-krsna Das was edited, then published with our heartfelt comments in the ASA Blog.
No one has sent us “ISKCON Peru’s statement on Daru Krishna Das”, so we cannot comment on that, but we feel that Prabhu is correct in challenging us that since we published some of his personal communications that he then has a right to express himself in the same forum.
We feel that it is a problem with our ISKCON community that devotees are not conscious that any discussions of politics, women and money privately with a Sannyasi are automatically open for possible public scrutiny. “He (a Sannyasi) is even forbidden to talk with a woman in a secluded place." https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/16/1-3/#bb3636
That is another topic which we should POLITELY discuss. We try to enter into administration, politics, in terms of our age, nation and Ashrama situation. We do not feel that our opinions on these things are perfect and thus listen to polite opinions of others.
We apologize that we have been rather slow in dealing with this, but heavy travel, change of Camps, has resulted in severe physical distress, at 75-years old, which should be expected, no?
Let us look at DK (Daru-krsna Das)’s comments, make our comments, and then whoever is mentioned by name certainly has the right to send a comment for this ASA Blog. After that we will probably leave the discussion to the GBC and their appointed delegates for their comments and decisions.
Thank you. 🙏
DKD - Within the GBC, the situation of devotees who have disciples has been discussed on several occasions and, in some cases, they have been sanctioned without the resolution being published. This means that during the discussion topics were discussed that were not wanted to be made public so as not to disturb the disciples, and for the same reason the resolution with the sanction was not made public.
It is necessary to understand that when a devotee, regardless of his position, popularity, level, number of disciples, public image, etc., takes an administrative position, he is subject to scrutiny, and that not necessarily those who analyze and even criticize his situation, service and efficiency, must be at the same level. It is not even necessary that his spiritual brothers be the ones who can analyze and judge his performance, but what can we say if they are. Of course, for obvious reasons, they will choose the appropriate forum or situation to make judgments, talk about details and express themselves in a certain way.
ASA – We and probably many GBC agree. That is why we feel Sannyasis and Diksa gurus should not be working in these Ksatriya positions.
In the past, messages from two very important leaders of the movement were leaked, causing much unrest among the disciples of another equally prominent leader. These two leaders would never have wanted what they said and how they said it to be made public, which means that they cannot be held responsible for having caused such unrest.
Here we have a quartet tearing themselves apart over my comments published in a public forum without my knowledge, and “forced,” as one of them told me, to issue a statement condemning me for having dared to say certain things.
But, if my comments were considered offensive and it was seen that it was not my intention for them to be made public and it was deleted from the forum, why were there those who were interested in making copies and spreading this everywhere? With what intention was something like this shared if it was considered offensive? Why wasn't it left there? It was necessary to publish it in the Commerce so that more people read it?
For someone who thinks a little, it is not difficult to deduce that, especially for the quartet in question, having something like this has been a “nectar”, because what matters in this case is not the offense committed, it is continuing to attack the messenger, and not debate or respond point by point to the serious accusations that have been made against them, which are based on evidence, but rather try to discredit and annul the person who presents them.
HpS/ASA – At this point the “quartet” has not been named and so our Blog readers are free to consider or not consider who they are.
Tom Brown, prominent member of ASA, wishes to consider that they are Winston Churchill, Joseph Stalin, Theodore Roosevelt and Harry Hopkins. 🐵
Yet others, with interest in Krsna conscious administration in ISKCON Peru, may identify them as certain contemporary people.
“If you are a rogue, you are a criminal. But if you tolerate criminal activities that is also criminal.” (May 3, 1973, morning walk).
Regarding the position of a person who does not speak even when he knows the truth:
jani saksi nahi deya tara papa haya. “A person who knows things as they are and yet does not bear witness engages in sinful activities.” (morning walk on May 17, 1975). Srila Prabhupada.
This is what his spiritual teacher wrote to a disciple who, among other devotees, was sharing what I wrote and making his own comments about me:
“Please send this letter to my disciple………….
My dear …………..
Please accept my prayers for your advancement in Krishna consciousness. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I have tried to contact you by email, but without success.
My friend ……….. has agreed to send you this letter.
Please abandon your attempt to discredit my friend and godbrother, Daru Krishna Prabhu. I have known him for many, many years and I am TOTALLY CONVINCED that he is not guilty of doing anything that would hurt Prabhupada's movement. On the contrary, he is doing everything he can to keep ISKCON pure. It is not your position to take such a prominent role in blaspheming him. Please stop this behavior immediately.
Your well-wisher
…………………………….”
But the “government” propaganda is that DK has a personal, hidden and dark agenda, for which he psychologically manipulates others, such as the 124 devotees who signed the letter asking that [Srimati] Gangamayi [Devi Dasi] and her family, as well as the Zonal Supervisor are removed from their positions. With that they are saying that all those devotees have bad intentions and are wrong, and that the only ones who have the truth and clear things are them.
For them, DK should not be outraged because the company he created together with good old Lakshmi Pati to maintain the Chosica temple and give work to the Grihastas, and which had managed to place its products, not only in many health-food stores but also in supermarkets in Lima, Gangamayi Devi Dasi turned it around and created her own, copying absolutely everything, so that later, for some inexplicable reason, he ended up managing said company along with her own and ended up bankrupting it.
Nor should he be disturbed in any way, because it is not true, that is, “there is no evidence,” that this same person wrote a letter that was made public, falsely accusing him [DK?] of going to the police “voluntarily” to report horrendous things about the Hare Krishna movement, that he helped found in Peru, and that he protected for more than two decades, leaving behind an excellent image.
It is worth saying that this is one of the topics that have been included in the official investigation approved by the LA RGB and the GBC - surely because a group of delusional people presented complaints without evidence - and two devotees who were used by it, in order to victimize themselves, by to be facing a court case for falsifying signatures, that allowed her to elect herself to the Board of Directors, something that carries a prison sentence, they have already provided their testimonies.
HpS – The translation.google.com is very bad here, and this is a fact, that ASA cannot follow all the Spanish perfectly. I, HpS, think I know of the incident in reference and as we heard from what seem to us rather reliable sources some definite administrative errors seem to have been committed.
Of course, we considered that the only person who never gets his hands dirty when he deals with administration is the person who never does any administration.
We remember SP commenting that Bhisma Deva was more advanced than Vyasa deva because he could do politics and keep his purity.
And how can you not be interested or concerned about what was done with the property of the institution that DK himself bought, representing a group of sincere devotees who sacrificed themselves to serve the mission of Srila Prabhupada, in a house located in one of the best places in Lima.
And when the 2nd floor of the house, which was bought for preaching Krishna consciousness and not for business, is finally recovered and a group of devotees with the support of the majority of the community was willing to take over, it turns out that Gangamayi Devi Dasi and family become not only Brahmanas from one day to the next, but also the most qualified and the only ones capable of worshiping the Deities. And for this reason they are allowed to move there for their accommodations, despite the list of devotees with second initiation and experience in pujari service that was presented to the Zonal Supervisor.
HpS - We have heard a different perspective on this. Maybe, it will be posted here.
Those who were already committed to organizing the programs there, upon learning of the decision of the Supervisor, who not only Supervises, but is also responsible for making decisions that should be in the hands of the local devotees, immediately resigned. Can anyone blame them for not wanting to work with Gangamayi Devi Dasi? Shouldn't we be outraged by this either or say anything about it?
HpS/ASA – I think we made some comments on this in our previous comments in dialog with edits from DKD's ideas.
As a general principle we understand that Srila Prabhupada directed that if you were not satisfied with administration by Temple President, then you had the right to go to your GBC Secretary showing that you sincerely tried to adjust things on a local level.
If you were not satisfied with your Regional GBC Secretary then you could go to two more showing proper evidence of failure to sincerely adjust with the previous people.
Finally, you could go to SP himself, … with proper evidence…, that you had tried to adjust the case, and then SP would deal with it.
Of course, if you were not giving proper respect to the situation and position of your President, Local and other GBC Secretaries, then we have heard ample reports from devotees who approached SP on these issues that his chastisement was so intense that they could not sleep for even three days. Yet, they felt only gratefulness for the chastisement.
I must understand that these are our Godbrothers, and Godsisters, and that they are the nobility of our Insitution.
Personally I have had problems within the last few years with ISKCON administration and did the above 1,2,3 approach, and then ‘took my problem to SP”, and felt that he approved of my local administrative decisions.
Two other GBC Secretaries later asked in passing why I had taken this administrative decision without express GBC permission, and I explained that I had done the above, and they both nodded in agreement, commenting that we had “gone through proper channels” and basically unless someone else wanted to challenge us then, “go ahead”.
I like ISKCON, I like the GBC, Supervisors, Temple Presidents, Daru-krsna Das and Srimati Gangamayi Devi Dasi. It doesn’t mean I don’t see faults in their actions. Radharani criticizes Candravali.
This is a "luxury" of being a Sannyasi, if you want it then take Sannyasa.
Would it not be great is Daru-krsna Das and Mathuresa Das both took Sannyasa in the same fire sacrifice?
CC.3.13.133
The official investigation was approved because sufficient evidence was presented, but since something like this takes time, those who appear as accused were asked to step aside and refrain from making important decisions regarding the management of funds and properties. Unfortunately, for well-known reasons, that is not approved so far.
ASA - 🙀 !!!
Because they are a group of intelligent and honest people, in 2019, those from the Veda company who sublet Schell's house, upon realizing the true situation of the contracts, expressed the desire and willingness to pay the rent directly to ISKCON, instead of continuing to pay the Zonal Supervisor, who declared that although he was a “devotee” doing a service there,
at the time of making these arrangements with the property he was “a businessman”, and for the current supervisor, everything was Well, it was simply someone who was a “smart negotiator.”
The problem is that those who should have coordinated this with them did not, and for these reasons and something that happened this year, the image that these people took away from ISKCON was the worst one can imagine.
The last straw that broke the camel's back was that one of those who “liked” the statement that I am responding to, despite knowing that these people would leave in a few months, couldn't handle his temper and went to the municipality of Miraflores. to file a complaint that resulted in the closure of the operation they were carrying out on the first floor of the house.
Personally, I will not stop saying what I see in the face of the deterioration of a Yatra that was once so successful, especially when things are more than clear and the main culprits for this are perfectly identified. If everything was fine, if at least the most important thing that was achieved had been maintained, I would be more than happy and in no way would I intervene.
On the contrary, I would be happy if as a result of some of the things I do people can go to the temples that I helped open. I'm not here trying to bring grist to my mill, I don't have a mill, and personally I don't gain or lose anything from this, just a certain amount of time and energy, in addition to being constantly subject to attacks from people like the ones who signed this statement.
In the service of my spiritual master and the Vaishnavas,
A donkey with good intentions and resistance,
Daru Krishna Das (ACBSP)
HpS/ASA – We apologize for any political mistakes, Brahminical mistakes, evilness at heart, that we have interjected into this situation. We hope that we are making our proper contribution to ISKCON politics as we should be according to our Varna and Ashrama.
Please send us your comments knowing that they are all subject to public scrutiny unless otherwise adjusted.
Then, again, we will leave this to see what the GBC decides.
Thank you.
Now, back, with everyone, to “spiritual” activities.
“The brāhmaṇas and the sannyāsīs are expert in the spiritual advancement of society, whereas the kṣatriyas or the administrators are expert in the material peace and prosperity of human society. Both of them are the pillars of all happiness, and therefore they are meant for full cooperation for common welfare.” https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/1/17/45/#bb17287
