hare Krsna Maharaj, Please accept my obeisances (not humble though), all glories to Srila Prabhupada, ASA Civil Dead Man Club.
glorious saint , you are the rare people on earth who is treading the path chalked by Acaryas seriously and is always looking to improve self.
HpS - ASA - AGTSP paoho. We, Tom Brown, agree, but we are humble.
Your sincerity is undoubtable, it is corroborated when we noticed that you are preaching to walls at 5am. People of your intellect are very rare...
ASA - Oink!
Hope we can just glorify you and then capacity to glorify the Parampars by purification.... All glories to Hanumantpresak Swami and his tradition/parampara.....
this letter is primarily on very broad topic of Guru-Tattva. We have some how decided to enroll ourself in of theological tradition..
though our mind once said us to direct ---i know there is god.. i have no problem with him.. i just want to enjoy sex life to the fullest..then if i can serve god no problem.. he is my maintainer..... but i really want to enjoy...
at worst case....
let god be there where he is and let me do my business ... this was shocking to us..
but we can not accept this plea/dictum of our mind[it will take us to hell definitely]. but we realize that we can not tame him without help of a guru. But we are really confused at position of guru and relation with disciple.
--- Who takes the sin of disciples ? If guru takes sin which all sins he takes--- before intiation or even after intiation.
ASA - Anybody we give advice to, we take reaction for their Karma, no? As we follow Lord Caitanya's instructions, Srnvatam sva katha krsna (SB 1.2) then He burns up our reactions and then at the time of initiation the Diksa guru finishes off the last bit.
--- Is it possible that if guru takes the sins, he may not suffer ?
HpS - He has to suffer, burn them up, but he doesn't do it until most of them are burnt up by the year of Japa etc by the candidate.
--- Is ritvik concept ok ? like in protestant christians Jesus is the ultimate guru (he takes the sin) , pastor (does not take your sin).....
ASA - Problem with "ritivik concept" is that it is never stated in any kind of detail by Srila Prabhupada. It is just a word for "priest" that he uses. In general, no, there must be a priest. We must act as we hear from te lips of our spiritual master, but he can say with his lips, "Srila Prabhupada is in his books".
--- what is the difference between ISK ritivk and ISK non0ritvik disciple ? How they both have to relate to Srila Prabhupada ?
ASA - As explained there is no standard meaning to Ritvik. Different guys use it generally, but in general it means that the "diksa guru" is just a priest, but in ISKCON the "diksa guru" is taking real responsibility on by authority of Prabhupada depending on his level of development.
--- what is the relation of ISK non ritvik disciple with intiating gurus ?
ASA - It is individual. Depends on the personal nature, development, of the Iskcon Guru. Look at NOI 5 last paragraph. We present these things in www.jayarama.us/kd/guru-tattva.txt, no? They are all accepting Srila Prabhupada as the Samsthapaka acharya. He make the foundation for ISKCON we can only, must, build on that.
we are asking this because of our mind. In FIRO-B test wefound we were high on command and control (8 OUT OF 9).. We like to receive commands and we like to give commands...
but in the past we had some mistake, we took our counsellors as representative of god.. and followed some advices ...which lead us in troubles later..
at present we are cautious of accpeting people as gurus--esp (guru mukha padam vakya-cittate na kariye ekya).. because of our high command and control nature..if we accept somebody as our guru, mostly we will be ready to die and kill for fulfilling his wish....
hence we need to clarify Guru-Tattva principles. we hope these question will also help all bloggers may be whole universe
regards,
trying to be sincere--bhakta harsh
ASA - The guru-tattva.txt thing is complete. Krsna is guru. If you pray to Him, Japa. He WILL guide you.