HpS: I think we may differ in that I understand that a Madhyama-adhikari who is formally initiated is also a liberated soul in as much as a dog on a lease doesn't go to any wrong places.  "diksa kale bhakt kare atma samarpan..." cited in NOI and many places.

SP NOI 5: "The process by which a devotee becomes attached to Krsna is described in Caitanya-caritamrta (Antya 4.192):

diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama

"At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders to the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as He Himself."

Diksa, or spiritual initiation, is explained in the Bhakti-sandarbha (868) by Srila Jiva Gosvami:

divyam jnanam yato dadyat

kuryat papasya sanksayam

tasmad dikseti sa prokta

desikais tattva-kovidaih

"By diksa one gradually becomes disinterested in material enjoyment and gradually becomes interested in spiritual life."

BJB: PAMHO AGTSP! 

Yes I agree he may be a liberated soul but what level of a liberated soul, that is my point. But Prabhupada says here in your quoted verse that "when a devotee fully surrenders" and this is a "gradual" process. Your example of "a dog on a leash doesn't go to the wrong places" is also accepted. 

HpS: just the consciousness that Srila Prabhupada was our Guru, AND, that he wanted us to follow his representatives…we would do that in perspective of how they were representing Srila Prabhupada properly

BJB: Yes, this is nice.

HpS: accept their administrative or Varna-ashrama authority or their actual superiority on terms of spiritual development.

BJB: Yes, I accept this.

HpS: In this we may fundamentally disagree, because even though I see many faults in ISKCON as an institution I think that it is functional and Krsna is protecting it

BJB: I don't think we disagree, I feel this way too.

HpS: I concluded that it [iskcon] was still within the protection of Krsna and Prabhupada.

BJB: Yes, me too.

HpS: So, pragmatically speaking, do you feel that it is true that a Second Initiated devotee, worshipping Radha and Krsna and following the standards sincerly is also a pure devotee, albeit a second class pure devotee?

BJB: Yes, depending on many factors he may be a second class pure devotee. There are many classes of pure devotees.

HpS: Maybe you are right the institution has deviated so much that we have to do something else. 

BJB: I never said that we have to do something else.

Thank you so much for your positive insight! As always you are surprisingly refreshing, full of wit, and you geniously word your thoughts.

Hare Krishna, Bhakta Joe Blow 

HpS - AGTSP   pamho.   I think we are rowing in the same direction and will get to the next signal beacon together and can make more progress from there.  I have one more question at this point.

Seems that some feel that the person giving names, beads, evaluating the candidate on behalf of Srila Prabhupada is a priest that deviates us from Srila Prabhupada for one moment but then we return to Srila Prabhupada afterwards.  On the other hand is the idea that we can see the above mentioned person as representative of Prabhupada before during and after the fire sacrifice.

What is your comprehension of this?